Dining across the divide: He's keen on punishing people for their crimes. It's not something I believe in'

"I had a chickpea curry, that was nice."

"I think prison is not effective and we should be working towards a better way."

"You cannot shut prisons, is my view. But, yes, there are reasons to consider the way that prisons work."

"Charlie wanted to close all prisons. And, of course, being ex-police, once a copper always a copper."

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